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Thread: Is the Wii U being sabotaged?

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    Is the Wii U being sabotaged?

    NOTE: everything here is just what if's. They may be untruthful. Take them with a grain of salt, and treat them like the speculation it is!


    Something is not sitting right with me. Relating directly with third parties.

    We are currently seeing a ... weird trend. Its almost unnatural!

    when the wii u was about to release gaming news was very positive to it showing excitement from the journalist themselves. But almost every new site on the same day turned negative on Nintendo. something i have not seen for any console ever.


    But it does not stop there, the trend continued with EA, announcing a partnership with Nintendo, but then releasing bad ports and one good one (one that probably cost them too much to give up on). Then soon after turned their backs, and cutting off bigger titles that were already working on the system. It seemed too sudden and too far off launch for them to be angry about origin.

    But now we have Ubisoft doing the exact same thing, saying they want it to be successful but the next day saying it is not worth their money or time to make exclusives. And there is the whole, Rayman Legends thing.

    It all just seems to fallow too much of a pattern, and then with EA saying they have a partnership with Microsoft just strengthens this idea.

    What if Microsoft is causing this, (i honestly also expect some foul play from Sony too, but not as much as i did before) I mean Fifa 13 is a pretty big tell with it using an older engine. What if, Microsoft made partnership with EA after EA partnered with Nintendo... but they made their deal sweeter.

    Why is Square suddenly making KH for a system that it will not sell well on? Maybe Microsoft does not see Sony as as big as a threat as Nintendo. Afterall, nintendo did outsell them last gen. Microsoft may be trying to weed them out.



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    honestly, i think the industry as a whole wants Nintendo out of the gaming market, i think that's 100% fact, from developers to media journalists
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    Quote Originally Posted by GameNChick View Post
    honestly, i think the industry as a whole wants Nintendo out of the gaming market, i think that's 100% fact, from developers to media journalists
    I dont know, that does not explain the way all the big name, in it for the money, Companies have been acting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud8521 View Post
    I dont know, that does not explain the way all the big name, in it for the money, Companies have been acting.
    nothing otherwise makes me think any differently than above u know?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GameNChick View Post
    nothing otherwise makes me think any differently than above u know?
    If they wanted them out, they would not have made even one game or announced any partnerships.
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    Moderator GameNChick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud8521 View Post
    If they wanted them out, they would not have made even one game or announced any partnerships.
    if u say so
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    Nope. Its as simple as this. Every Nintendo owner is buying a ps4 etc. We get Nintendo's for first party. Just look at this site. Nearly every member is getting a ps4 or xsnot. It doesn't effect there sales at all.

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    When there was a thread about who was getting a ps4 quite a few members stated that they wouldn't be, including myself
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desend View Post
    When there was a thread about who was getting a ps4 quite a few members stated that they wouldn't be, including myself
    And me, I cannot go into why.

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    I'm not interested in a PS4 either.

    I think it's just "cool" to hate on Nintendo, at the moment. Let's hope the console ends up getting the plaudits it deserves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotchy View Post
    Nope. Its as simple as this. Every Nintendo owner is buying a ps4 etc. We get Nintendo's for first party. Just look at this site. Nearly every member is getting a ps4 or xsnot. It doesn't effect there sales at all.
    I'm interested in both the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One (following the turnaround on DRM), but I don't think I can be counted in the same category as some others, as I planned to purchase both the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One irrespective of how well Nintendo's console fared. I'm not changing my tune simply because the Wii U might miss some third-party releases; I buy all my platforms primarily for exclusives, then decide third-party releases on a case-by-case basis.

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    I doubt the Wii U is being sabotaged by anything other than its lack of focus on the consumers it's targeting at the moment and resulting advertising. The 'games console for everybody' thing is easy to market if it become public conversation, but not before that. The publishing companies have witnessed poor sales in their games, namely EA it'd seem, and are waiting until the user base is stronger before releasing any more material, which could otherwise be a risk. Again, nothing odd there it would seem.

    If once we see the Wii U gain a much stronger user base and still not have the third party support, then I'd get suspicious of foul play, but even Nintendo has stated the performance of the console isn't quite what they expected.
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    Sabotaged? Honestly, with some of the things EA has said that's kinda likely... Claiming that the Wii U wasn't powerful enough to run Frostbite 3 then turning around and saying it was but they just didn't want to. Sabotaged by certain media outlets is almost absolute the way they spin news to show the negatives in every way.

    Other than that the reason that the Wii U hasn't sold as strongly as it should have is due to a confusing name (PS4 gets off lucky. Everyone will instantly know it's a new system) delays in first party games, gaps in major releases, and lackluster marketing.

    Casual gamers are responsible for the most sales. Not everyone who buys consoles spends time reading up on gaming news so any sabotage might not be too effective. With the Xbox One a lot of people are hating it because of what it tried to do, but because of the crap they were pulling, news spread fast, giving it a LOT of publicity. Not everyone likes it, but at least everyone understands it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud8521 View Post
    NOTE: everything here is just what if's. They may be untruthful. Take them with a grain of salt, and treat them like the speculation it is!


    Something is not sitting right with me. Relating directly with third parties.

    We are currently seeing a ... weird trend. Its almost unnatural!

    when the wii u was about to release gaming news was very positive to it showing excitement from the journalist themselves. But almost every new site on the same day turned negative on Nintendo. something i have not seen for any console ever.


    But it does not stop there, the trend continued with EA, announcing a partnership with Nintendo, but then releasing bad ports and one good one (one that probably cost them too much to give up on). Then soon after turned their backs, and cutting off bigger titles that were already working on the system. It seemed too sudden and too far off launch for them to be angry about origin.

    But now we have Ubisoft doing the exact same thing, saying they want it to be successful but the next day saying it is not worth their money or time to make exclusives. And there is the whole, Rayman Legends thing.

    It all just seems to fallow too much of a pattern, and then with EA saying they have a partnership with Microsoft just strengthens this idea.

    What if Microsoft is causing this, (i honestly also expect some foul play from Sony too, but not as much as i did before) I mean Fifa 13 is a pretty big tell with it using an older engine. What if, Microsoft made partnership with EA after EA partnered with Nintendo... but they made their deal sweeter.

    Why is Square suddenly making KH for a system that it will not sell well on? Maybe Microsoft does not see Sony as as big as a threat as Nintendo. Afterall, nintendo did outsell them last gen. Microsoft may be trying to weed them out.


    Okay but seriously no, I don't think it's sabotage. I believe it's more to do that companies are greedy and they thought they could make money with the Wii U off the gate, but they didn't so they left. They'll be back in Christmas/next year. As for the journalists they were excited, but when people got too angry they might have fell into peer pressure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud8521 View Post
    If they wanted them out, they would not have made even one game or announced any partnerships.
    I'm not saying this is it, but to play the conspiracy theorist, announcing partnerships could be a legitimate part of the plan. Let's just say that all of the game companies want Nintendo out. It may actually help to solidify Nintendo's failure if they all look like they're excited about the Wii U, and then they all bail because they learned their lesson. That could send a much bigger message to the world than if they didn't even give them a chance at all. People don't listen to a lack of experience as much as they do someone having experience, but finding out that it sucks.

    But I don't think it's a big conspiracy with the entire industry. I honestly think that Ubisoft is just a casualty of the war. I think if anyone was actually sabotaging the Wii U, it was EA, Pachter, a lot of the gaming news media, and Nintendo itself. We can only speculate on EA's reasoning, but it was obviously a sabotage. We don't have to say anything about Pachter. He's obviously in league with someone. There was no reason for him to be so harsh if he wasn't in league with someone. I have no idea what the news media's motives were. And we all know Nintendo screwed up with advertising, PR, and underestimating the amount of work that goes into creating quality HD games.

    As for Ubisoft and the rest of the game companies, I think they were just casualties. They have to do what's right for the bottom line. I definitely think if 3rd parties would have been all out taking risks on the Wii U like they are on Xbone/PS4, then the Wii U could have been more successful.
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    I think if anybody has sabotaged the wiiu it is nintendo themselves. They have already admitted they messed up on the marketing front, but it's almost like they didn't want sales in how badly marketing was botched up. They have also let third parties leave, they should have done more to keep them.

    Also, whne you release a system that's clearly under powered when you compare it to the ps4 or xbox one, it's going to get hate in the west, regardless of the games that are on it. The west automatically think bigger is better and more is best.

    Nintendo's game line up has been lack luster for the wiiu, who can blame anybody for being dissatisfied when the wiiu launch Window titles included a bunch of side scrollers and old ports. Yes their are the most exceptions to that (Zombiu monster hunter, Lego city) but most of the games are not what will attract people who routinely buy games.

    I enjoy the wiiu myself, but it's clear as to why it's failing in the west. It's also clearly why people want a ps4,to have a varied game choices, the wiiu just doesn't have that much of a variety. It's to bad because I would prefer to just have the wiiu as my only console, but i want more than just side scrollers and platformers in the next year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fzeroplease View Post
    I think if anybody has sabotaged the wiiu it is nintendo themselves. They have already admitted they messed up on the marketing front, but it's almost like they didn't want sales in how badly marketing was botched up. They have also let third parties leave, they should have done more to keep them.

    Also, whne you release a system that's clearly under powered when you compare it to the ps4 or xbox one, it's going to get hate in the west, regardless of the games that are on it. The west automatically think bigger is better and more is best.

    Nintendo's game line up has been lack luster for the wiiu, who can blame anybody for being dissatisfied when the wiiu launch Window titles included a bunch of side scrollers and old ports. Yes their are the most exceptions to that (Zombiu monster hunter, Lego city) but most of the games are not what will attract people who routinely buy games.

    I enjoy the wiiu myself, but it's clear as to why it's failing in the west. It's also clearly why people want a ps4,to have a varied game choices, the wiiu just doesn't have that much of a variety. It's to bad because I would prefer to just have the wiiu as my only console, but i want more than just side scrollers and platformers in the next year.
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    Also the WiiU's name itself doesn't help. People are confused as to what the wiiu is, and that it isn't a hard core gaming console. Also it implies the wiiu is another wii or a sequel to the wii, which most gamers game up on a long time ago.

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    If you want to talk about sabotage, look at what the third party companies released at launch. Ports of old games that most people had already played, some of them gimped. Is it any wonder that most of them didn't sell well? 3rd parties always claim that their games don't sell well on Nintendo systems so they released games that almost no one wanted, they didn't sell well, and it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. They pulled support based on sales of those initial games but they basically sabotaged themselves. If they had released new games, even if they were multiplatforms released simultaneously with other consoles, perhaps that would have given a more compelling reason for people to buy the Wii U. Game companies were lazy and didn't want to put forth the effort. This in addition to Nintendo's delays in development and lack of promotion are a good part of what led up to the current situation. Intentional sabotage? I'm not sure about that. Laziness and prejudice against Nintendo systems? Almost certainly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fzeroplease View Post
    I think if anybody has sabotaged the wiiu it is nintendo themselves. They have already admitted they messed up on the marketing front, but it's almost like they didn't want sales in how badly marketing was botched up. They have also let third parties leave, they should have done more to keep them.

    Also, whne you release a system that's clearly under powered when you compare it to the ps4 or xbox one, it's going to get hate in the west, regardless of the games that are on it. The west automatically think bigger is better and more is best.

    Nintendo's game line up has been lack luster for the wiiu, who can blame anybody for being dissatisfied when the wiiu launch Window titles included a bunch of side scrollers and old ports. Yes their are the most exceptions to that (Zombiu monster hunter, Lego city) but most of the games are not what will attract people who routinely buy games.

    I enjoy the wiiu myself, but it's clear as to why it's failing in the west. It's also clearly why people want a ps4,to have a varied game choices, the wiiu just doesn't have that much of a variety. It's to bad because I would prefer to just have the wiiu as my only console, but i want more than just side scrollers and platformers in the next year.


    you should be a stand up comedian! your hilarious!


    do you do this to make people mad?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud8521 View Post
    If they wanted them out, they would not have made even one game or announced any partnerships.
    Making crappy ports and then blaming poor sales of their game on the console itself..... I think GameNChick might be right. Maybe part of poor sales for games are nintendos fault, but if a crappy port is done why would you not take partial blame for it? I don't even classify half of the Wii U games as having poor sales. There's not many console sales so is it right to say that a game sold 75k copies if there's only 200k consoles sold? (Not real numbers just numbers to make a point). Not all games appeal to every gamer and if you try and sell a crappy port even fewer people will buy it. Companies know this. So if they try and port garbage they should expect garbage sale totals in return. On the other hand, make a solid game and you could help boost sales of consoles while in return sell more of your own games. I don't even have a degree in business and I can figure that out....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshifan3 View Post
    you should be a stand up comedian! your hilarious!


    do you do this to make people mad?
    Which point do you disagree with? Your glad nintendo didn't do More to hang on to third party support. You don't think power matters in the west l You accuse me of being immature yet you respond with a comment that only serves to try to make me mad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fzeroplease View Post
    I think if anybody has sabotaged the wiiu it is nintendo themselves. They have already admitted they messed up on the marketing front, but it's almost like they didn't want sales in how badly marketing was botched up. They have also let third parties leave, they should have done more to keep them.

    Also, whne you release a system that's clearly under powered when you compare it to the ps4 or xbox one, it's going to get hate in the west, regardless of the games that are on it. The west automatically think bigger is better and more is best.

    Nintendo's game line up has been lack luster for the wiiu, who can blame anybody for being dissatisfied when the wiiu launch Window titles included a bunch of side scrollers and old ports. Yes their are the most exceptions to that (Zombiu monster hunter, Lego city) but most of the games are not what will attract people who routinely buy games.

    I enjoy the wiiu myself, but it's clear as to why it's failing in the west. It's also clearly why people want a ps4,to have a varied game choices, the wiiu just doesn't have that much of a variety. It's to bad because I would prefer to just have the wiiu as my only console, but i want more than just side scrollers and platformers in the next year.
    Let me add to this.......AAAAHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Try a snozberry!
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    This is Nintendo's fault had they better planned their killer apps at launch then they would be able to force the hand of 3rd party companies however they slacked and continue to slack any games coming out in July for Wii U??
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeviousOne View Post
    This is Nintendo's fault had they better planned their killer apps at launch then they would be able to force the hand of 3rd party companies however they slacked and continue to slack any games coming out in July for Wii U??
    Exactly third parties will go Where the install base is. Yes the ps4 and xbox1 has zero but those brands paid off for them in the past while nintendo has rarely paid off for third parties. Besides microsoft and Sony have thrown money at third parties whole nintendo tells them to please understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fzeroplease View Post
    Which point do you disagree with? Your glad nintendo didn't do More to hang on to third party support. You don't think power matters in the west l You accuse me of being immature yet you respond with a comment that only serves to try to make me mad.


    i agree that they need to step up third party support, but its really annoying that you keep dissing DK and other side scrollers, just stop already with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshifan3 View Post
    i agree that they need to step up third party support, but its really annoying that you keep dissing DK and other side scrollers, just stop already with it.
    If you would have read my last few posts I never mention dk tropical Freeze. I never even pit down side scrollers, my point is they need more of a variety of game. I have nothing against most side scrollers, i fact most of my time latey have been spend playing new super Luigi.

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    It's not really sabotage as such, the other two manufacturers are taking the normal monetary pressure and amping it up a couple of notches, often using third parties (like EA and Square) as tools in their little game. Just a different, more intense, version of the same old game, but unfortunately Nintendo can't fight back with the only superior weapon in their arsenal--first party games. It's pretty clear now that NSMB Wii's stellar sales were a mix of an enormous install base and older gamer nostalgia. The Wii U's base is small, and people can't be nostalgic for a game they just bought a few years ago. If NintendoLand hadn't been a pack in with the deluxe model, I think sales of that title would be abysmal. People, apart from Nintendo fans, just aren't that interested in those games. And Pikmin still doesn't come out for another month. It's all too bad, as even though they actually did some advertising for Lego City: Undercover, I think if they had deviated from their super secret master plan a bit and gave that game a little more advertising push, it would have been an even bigger success, that big game the Wii U really needs. But if some people still think the U is an add-on for the Wii, there's no way in hell they have any idea what Lego City even is.
    Last edited by the ancient gamer; 07-05-2013 at 10:20 AM.

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    I agree that Nintendo is the only person to blame here. They thought that the whole 'let's make sidescrolling marios and make bank' idea would work to build hype and it has not.

    It's great to come out with ONE nostalgic game, but don't expect that everyone will constantly get that itch to do the same thing over and over.

    I also agree that there are WAAAAYYYY too many sidescrollers. To be honest, I would have been WAY more hyped about the new 3d mario, had it not been for the way they stuck the camera making it almost virtually a sidescroller...

    Also, there are too many platformers in specifics. You can say what you want about sidescrollers, and while I agree that there are too many, but I think what people really mean are there are too many platform games.

    There are (to my knowledge) no rpgs, no mmo games, no NEW action games, and only one open world game.
    That's a lot of gap. I mean you can speculate on that but the fact is they just arent here to buy yet, and most consumers don't feel like waiting.

    Couple that with the fact that the PS4 is only $50 more (I still don't buy the b.s. that Nintendo thinks it doesn't need to lower the price) and the proof is in the pudding.

    When PS4 comes out it will have a full variety of games, when the Wii U only mainly has platformers, and old ports minus two games that I can think of (Lego City, and Zombiu).

    Sure Zelda WW HD will by out by the time PS4 comes out, but at the same time, everyone (or most people out there) has played it already, so even though it's a revamped version, it too will be under the category of an old port as far as I am concerned.

    I think Nintendo just simply dropped the bomb and even though they seem like they are trying to get themselves out of the weeds, they have not yet, and I still don't see any adverts for the Wii U. They should have had that all geared up to start directly after E3.

    All things aside, I still feel that they could make EVERYONE happy by doing only two things..
    1. Advertise the hell out of the damn thing!
    2. Drop the price $50. Doesn't have to be a full $100 drop. Sure the $100 would help but I don't think it would have that much more impact than $50.

    Also on sabotage, I do think that EA is either severely butthurt that we didn't just go throw our wallets at them when they brought their halfa##ed ports out (which I WOULD HAVE PURCHASED had it not been a gimped version EA!), or they were bought and paid for my M$ themselves. This would make sense.

    Sony is in the business, that they just take people to court and threat, but M$ has a good history with shady business practices as we have all seen during E3 when they hired their henchmen to go hangout at Wii U demo stations in Best Buy...

    It would not surprise me if M$ paid good sums of cash to people in these 3rd parties to say random crap about the Wii U. You ever notice that most of the time the people spewing dirt were NOT the spokesmen/spokeswomen for those 3rd parties but random programmers or whatnot?

    Think about this. Say you were making between 50k and 75k per yr as either a project manager or programmer, and M$ came to you and said 'You know, your a reputable guy. People believe what you say in the media. Here's 200k. Say this on Twitter'.

    Hate to say it, but I would be like.. What you want me to say boss?
    Last edited by hexskrew; 07-05-2013 at 10:53 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hexskrew View Post
    I agree that Nintendo is the only person to blame here. They thought that the whole 'let's make sidescrolling marios and make bank' idea would work to build hype and it has not.

    It's great to come out with ONE nostalgic game, but don't expect that everyone will constantly get that itch to do the same thing over and over.

    I also agree that there are WAAAAYYYY too many sidescrollers. To be honest, I would have been WAY more hyped about the new 3d mario, had it not been for the way they stuck the camera making it almost virtually a sidescroller...

    Also, there are too many platformers in specifics. You can say what you want about sidescrollers, and while I agree that there are too many, but I think what people really mean are there are too many platform games.

    There are (to my knowledge) no rpgs, no mmo games, no NEW action games, and only one open world game.
    That's a lot of gap. I mean you can speculate on that but the fact is they just arent here to buy yet, and most consumers don't feel like waiting.

    Couple that with the fact that the PS4 is only $50 more (I still don't buy the b.s. that Nintendo thinks it doesn't need to lower the price) and the proof is in the pudding.

    When PS4 comes out it will have a full variety of games, when the Wii U only mainly has platformers, and old ports minus two games that I can think of (Lego City, and Zombiu).

    Sure Zelda WW HD will by out by the time PS4 comes out, but at the same time, everyone (or most people out there) has played it already, so even though it's a revamped version, it too will be under the category of an old port as far as I am concerned.

    I think Nintendo just simply dropped the bomb and even though they seem like they are trying to get themselves out of the weeds, they have not yet, and I still don't see any adverts for the Wii U. They should have had that all geared up to start directly after E3.

    All things aside, I still feel that they could make EVERYONE happy by doing only two things..
    1. Advertise the hell out of the damn thing!
    2. Drop the price $50. Doesn't have to be a full $100 drop. Sure the $100 would help but I don't think it would have that much more impact than $50.

    Also on sabotage, I do think that EA is either severely butthurt that we didn't just go throw our wallets at them when they brought their halfa##ed ports out (which I WOULD HAVE PURCHASED had it not been a gimped version EA!), or they were bought and paid for my M$ themselves. This would make sense.

    Sony is in the business, that they just take people to court and threat, but M$ has a good history with shady business practices as we have all seen during E3 when they hired their henchmen to go hangout at Wii U demo stations in Best Buy...

    It would not surprise me if M$ paid good sums of cash to people in these 3rd parties to say random crap about the Wii U. You ever notice that most of the time the people spewing dirt were NOT the spokesmen/spokeswomen for those 3rd parties but random programmers or whatnot?

    Think about this. Say you were making between 50k and 75k per yr as either a project manager or programmer, and M$ came to you and said 'You know, your a reputable guy. People believe what you say in the media. Here's 200k. Say this on Twitter'.

    Hate to say it, but I would be like.. What you want me to say boss?

    I agree that Nintendo has made some serious missteps with the Wii U but I think there's enough blame to go around. Third parties promised support and Nintendo was counting on that to give them enough leeway to complete some of the games they were working on and third parties gave... what? Basically nothing. I'll also grant you that Nintendo needs to me making many more partnerships like what they've done with Platinum. I agree with a lot of what you say about Nintendo's idiocy (especially their utter lack of marketing) but as I said they're not the only ones who should be on the hook. NEW third party games and REAL support would have gone a long way to help sell the system out of the gate.
    Look at what the PS4 and XBox one have in development. ALL NEW THIRD PARTY GAMES THAT ARE NOT CRAPPY PORTS OF OLDER GAMES in addition to the first party offerings. Tell me that won't be a selling point for those systems.
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    I always kinda laugh to myself whenever somebody says that Nintendo is being sabotaged. If Microsoft were to try to sabotage anybody don't you think it would be Sony? Nintendo appeals to a different market, that's not so say that they don't both compete for the same consumers, that much is true, but true gamers realize you need a Nintendo platform+PS4/XB1/PC if you want to experience all there is in a generation.



    Quote Originally Posted by wu_wei_lion View Post
    I agree that Nintendo has made some serious missteps with the Wii U but I think there's enough blame to go around. Third parties promised support and Nintendo was counting on that to give them enough leeway to complete some of the games they were working on and third parties gave... what? Basically nothing. I'll also grant you that Nintendo needs to me making many more partnerships like what they've done with Platinum. I agree with a lot of what you say about Nintendo's idiocy (especially their utter lack of marketing) but as I said they're not the only ones who should be on the hook. NEW third party games and REAL support would have gone a long way to help sell the system out of the gate.
    Look at what the PS4 and XBox one have in development. ALL NEW THIRD PARTY GAMES THAT ARE NOT CRAPPY PORTS OF OLDER GAMES in addition to the first party offerings. Tell me that won't be a selling point for those systems.
    The part you said about the blame for the game drought is absolutely correct. I'd be willing to bet Nintendo was counting on Crysis 3 during that gap only for EA to kill it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahhhhyle View Post
    I always kinda laugh to myself whenever somebody says that Nintendo is being sabotaged. If Microsoft were to try to sabotage anybody don't you think it would be Sony? Nintendo appeals to a different market, that's not so say that they don't both compete for the same consumers, that much is true, but true gamers realize you need a Nintendo platform+PS4/XB1/PC if you want to experience all there is in a generation.





    The part you said about the blame for the game drought is absolutely correct. I'd be willing to bet Nintendo was counting on Crysis 3 during that gap only for EA to kill it.
    Nintendo should have paid ea to release it.

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    There's no conspiracy. I think there is probably some "sweet spot" number that 3rd party publishers look for in regards to sales on EVERY console, but with Nintendo the number of consoles sold HAS to be higher than X-box and PS because 3rd party titles don't sell as well.

    So for example. If PS4 had 10,000,000 consoles, the publisher might expect to sell 1,000,000 copies of Game X. But to sell 1,000,000 of the same game on Wii U, the publisher needs an install base of 15,000,000.

    So, I think when Nintendo projected selling 5 million consoles within the first 6 months and they failed to make that number, publisher's softened their support. It's not that 3.5m consoles was BAD... it's that it's BAD for Nintendo (or more accurately, bad for 3rd party publishers).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyj View Post
    There's no conspiracy. I think there is probably some "sweet spot" number that 3rd party publishers look for in regards to sales on EVERY console, but with Nintendo the number of consoles sold HAS to be higher than X-box and PS because 3rd party titles don't sell as well.

    So for example. If PS4 had 10,000,000 consoles, the publisher might expect to sell 1,000,000 copies of Game X. But to sell 1,000,000 of the same game on Wii U, the publisher needs an install base of 15,000,000.

    So, I think when Nintendo projected selling 5 million consoles within the first 6 months and they failed to make that number, publisher's softened their support. It's not that 3.5m consoles was BAD... it's that it's BAD for Nintendo (or more accurately, bad for 3rd party publishers).
    That's essentially right. These people are competing with Nintendo first party games as well, and that's tough. And why the game drought is extra sad--there are no Nintendo games to compete with at the moment!
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    Quote Originally Posted by the ancient gamer View Post
    That's essentially right. These people are competing with Nintendo first party games as well, and that's tough. And why the game drought is extra sad--there are no Nintendo games to compete with at the moment!
    Exactly. I think those games would have sold if the third parties published them and may have even driven console sales. Now Nintendo's bringing all their big guns to the table and the third parties' prediction might become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Nintendo probably wouldn't have released them at the rapid rate they're currently planning if there were more third party games to hold the drought over. I also believe that Nintendo would have preferred to bring them out at two or three a year instead of one a month.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wu_wei_lion View Post
    Exactly. I think those games would have sold if the third parties published them and may have even driven console sales. Now Nintendo's bringing all their big guns to the table and the third parties' prediction might become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Nintendo probably wouldn't have released them at the rapid rate they're currently planning if there were more third party games to hold the drought over. I also believe that Nintendo would have preferred to bring them out at two or three a year instead of one a month.
    My worry is what they'll have to bring out in late 2014 - 2015.

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    The best we can expect in 2014 from companies that aren't already planning games for Wii U is more ports from other consoles. It will probably be until 2015 that any appreciable efforts that were developed from the ground up will arrive. For the time being, it seems that the Wii U will be primarily a Nintendo only console. I'll hope for better but I'll be prepared for the scenario in my prediction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wu_wei_lion View Post
    Nintendo probably wouldn't have released them at the rapid rate they're currently planning if there were more third party games to hold the drought over. I also believe that Nintendo would have preferred to bring them out at two or three a year instead of one a month.
    Maybe. But Pikmin and Wind Waker were both delayed, so we'll never know for sure. It does seem like they plan on ramping up the first party releases in general, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Lazy 10 View Post
    My worry is what they'll have to bring out in late 2014 - 2015.
    Zelda?

    Quote Originally Posted by wu_wei_lion View Post
    The best we can expect in 2014 from companies that aren't already planning games for Wii U is more ports from other consoles.
    That could be, but that's okay with me, and it does the console just fine.

    Getting back to the issue of sabotage, I think I did the OP a bit of a disservice with my earlier post. Sony and Microsoft are hitting harder than ever, as I pointed out, but that's to be expected because Nintendo "won" the last generation, so you can chalk that up to business being business. I don't know if (as hexscrew postulates) the nasty comments by developers and the like are any more nefarious than the nasty ramblings of a bunch of lunkheads. But the gaming media, on the other hand, seemed to jump on the doom train whole-heartedly, and that begs the question of just what is going on there. Sure, they don't exactly have high standards when it comes to what they write/publish/post, but were they merely hoping for attention from rabid fanboy haters, or trying to fuel it?
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    Mind you guys that if they DO start making any wexclusive for the Wii U, we may not see if for a year +.

    ANd this thread was just me stating a very big possibility. I cannot give my true reasons why. But lets just say, firsthand experience. and be done with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the ancient gamer View Post
    Maybe. But Pikmin and Wind Waker were both delayed, so we'll never know for sure. It does seem like they plan on ramping up the first party releases in general, though.



    Zelda?



    That could be, but that's okay with me, and it does the console just fine.

    Getting back to the issue of sabotage, I think I did the OP a bit of a disservice with my earlier post. Sony and Microsoft are hitting harder than ever, as I pointed out, but that's to be expected because Nintendo "won" the last generation, so you can chalk that up to business being business. I don't know if (as hexscrew postulates) the nasty comments by developers and the like are any more nefarious than the nasty ramblings of a bunch of lunkheads. But the gaming media, on the other hand, seemed to jump on the doom train whole-heartedly, and that begs the question of just what is going on there. Sure, they don't exactly have high standards when it comes to what they write/publish/post, but were they merely hoping for attention from rabid fanboy haters, or trying to fuel it?
    That's a good point. The gaming media has been on any negative Nintendo news like flies on crap. People have been predicting Nintendo's demise for a long time so it may just be more of the same. However, people do seem to like it when whoever's on top takes a fall. People seem to have eaten it up, however so that gave the press an incentive to continue on the doom track. Nintendo hasn't been doing a whole lot to combat the negative publicity, which has fueled the feeding frenzy further. Is there a conspiracy? The bottom line is that third parties are afraid of losing money and the Wii, successful as it was, wasn't a cash cow many of them last generation. So-called hardcore gamers looked with derision on the Wii's lack of power and of course, they are a vocal minority (note that by hardcore gamers I mean the morons who troll IGN). The fact that Nintendo didn't release an overpowered beast of a console this time around fed into their rants. Is there an actual conspiracy by Microsoft and Sony against Nintendo? Doubtful, in my opinion. However there's a veritable conspiracy of circumstances in which Nintendo, third parties, and gaming media have participated that have culminated in the situation we see now. I'll get off my soap box now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fzeroplease View Post
    Nintendo should have paid ea to release it.
    Maybe they tried to. I feel as if Nintendo would have tried to get it released, but this was right about the time EA was really ramping up their hate train, both companies should have really wanted that game released, EA because of the time and resources they already pumped into it, and Nintendo in an attempt to end their spring game drought. Whose to blame for it? Who knows, but I like to think Nintendo really tried to get that game out...
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    Well, no matter how you look at it, sabotaged or not, Nintendo has lived through much worse and the Wii U situation isn't even as bad as most people make it out to be.

    So let's all go play some games.
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    I know many of you like to think nintendo is to blame for much of this, but lets be honest. They have been pushing, and even publishing things they generally dont publish. Even contacting kickstarter games to get them on their platform. I honestly expected Nintendo titles to not come out so early this time, due to the quality nintnedo strives for and the lateness of the final build.

    But still I have not heard of system abandonment like this before other systems even hit the market. It just does not sit right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud8521 View Post
    I know many of you like to think nintendo is to blame for much of this, but lets be honest. They have been pushing, and even publishing things they generally dont publish. Even contacting kickstarter games to get them on their platform. I honestly expected Nintendo titles to not come out so early this time, due to the quality nintnedo strives for and the lateness of the final build.

    But still I have not heard of system abandonment like this before other systems even hit the market. It just does not sit right.
    thing is they are giving free dev kits to a lot of the lower ended indie devs, whereas people like the guys that are making hat in tiem, they've just ''expressed interest'' and havent done anything beyond that, why dont they give THEM a dev kit when their game is directly inspired by Nintendo games in the first place

    Also all these indie games are nice, but they arent system sellers and arent going to move any units either, whats the point of having all these indie games if there's not enough install base there to purchase it lol

    Nintendo is bending over backwards TOO much for indies and in turn they're neglecting third party
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    Quote Originally Posted by GameNChick View Post
    thing is they are giving free dev kits to a lot of the lower ended indie devs, whereas people like the guys that are making hat in tiem, they've just ''expressed interest'' and havent done anything beyond that, why dont they give THEM a dev kit when their game is directly inspired by Nintendo games in the first place

    Also all these indie games are nice, but they arent system sellers and arent going to move any units either, whats the point of having all these indie games if there's not enough install base there to purchase it lol

    Nintendo is bending over backwards TOO much for indies and in turn they're neglecting third party
    Probably afraid a hat in time will be better than their own mario game.



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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud8521 View Post
    I know many of you like to think nintendo is to blame for much of this, but lets be honest. They have been pushing, and even publishing things they generally dont publish. Even contacting kickstarter games to get them on their platform. I honestly expected Nintendo titles to not come out so early this time, due to the quality nintnedo strives for and the lateness of the final build.

    But still I have not heard of system abandonment like this before other systems even hit the market. It just does not sit right.
    The whole thing with third parties is pretty unprecedented. We can be certain that EA's problem is not only their feud with Nintendo, but them hopping into bed with Microsoft. I think that's obvious. It wasn't until the whole DRM thing blew up in their faces that EA came out and said, "Ummm, well, you know..." about things Wii U related, from Frostbite to actual releases. It may have just been early damage control for the Disney/Star Wars thing, but I doubt it. Square with Kingdom Hearts is another example. Not to say that won't come to Wii U (it may), but to put it on a system whose release in Japan will be delayed, and which won't really sell once it does come out? I call shenanigans. As far as it not sitting right with you, it shouldn't--but I think the wacked demographics of the console are at least partly to blame. No big first party titles has stunted the growth of the base, leaving it a collection of the pure Nintendo faithful. I can see where a mid-level developer wouldn't want to push something like Dead Rising into that arena. I can't tell you what Capcom's deal is though, but at least there is a chance they'll come around.
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    Quote Originally Posted by the ancient gamer View Post
    The whole thing with third parties is pretty unprecedented. We can be certain that EA's problem is not only their feud with Nintendo, but them hopping into bed with Microsoft. I think that's obvious. It wasn't until the whole DRM thing blew up in their faces that EA came out and said, "Ummm, well, you know..." about things Wii U related, from Frostbite to actual releases. It may have just been early damage control for the Disney/Star Wars thing, but I doubt it. Square with Kingdom Hearts is another example. Not to say that won't come to Wii U (it may), but to put it on a system whose release in Japan will be delayed, and which won't really sell once it does come out? I call shenanigans. As far as it not sitting right with you, it shouldn't--but I think the wacked demographics of the console are at least partly to blame. No big first party titles has stunted the growth of the base, leaving it a collection of the pure Nintendo faithful. I can see where a mid-level developer wouldn't want to push something like Dead Rising into that arena. I can't tell you what Capcom's deal is though, but at least there is a chance they'll come around.
    I'd still like to hear Konami acknowledge the existence of the Wii U. It's like they haven't realized it's out yet...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker133 View Post
    I'd still like to hear Konami acknowledge the existence of the Wii U. It's like they haven't realized it's out yet...
    TBH for a large 3rd party at least, silence is better than saying anything at this point. They are probably waiting to see if Nintendo is going to dig themselves out of this mess, and if so, then surely they will bring some gaming food for the ride (as they did with the Wii multiple times), but if there is still a decline by January, then I don't see them doing anything for the console..

    To be honest if the U sales don't pick up by January, I don't see anyone tipping a toe into the ecosystem... At least not for another year until there is at least a decent install base. By that time it would be just 1st party and strictly indie... That would be sad.. I hope we don't get to that point. It sure would make me feel a whole lot better if I saw a Wii U commercial though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hexskrew View Post
    TBH for a large 3rd party at least, silence is better than saying anything at this point. They are probably waiting to see if Nintendo is going to dig themselves out of this mess, and if so, then surely they will bring some gaming food for the ride (as they did with the Wii multiple times), but if there is still a decline by January, then I don't see them doing anything for the console..

    To be honest if the U sales don't pick up by January, I don't see anyone tipping a toe into the ecosystem... At least not for another year until there is at least a decent install base. By that time it would be just 1st party and strictly indie... That would be sad.. I hope we don't get to that point. It sure would make me feel a whole lot better if I saw a Wii U commercial though.
    yeah i feel holiday season sales are crucial and yes we need some wii u commercials, i cant tell you how many times ive seen that annoying as hell ''greatness awaits'' playstation commercial on multiple channels
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